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Post by AYC on Jan 6, 2016 21:02:48 GMT
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Post by Southpaw on Jan 6, 2016 21:47:24 GMT
Futility.
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 7, 2016 3:09:58 GMT
This isn't just about gay marriage (though it does help confuse things in regards to that- after all, at least two counties stopped granting marriage licenses after this was handed down). Moore used a very specific phrase that most would not get- "ministerial duty". There's a legal term he used in his statement- "Ministerial duty". There's a legal definition (duty carried out by a person in a public position), but there's also a subtext. Moore is not one of those who believe in separation of church and state. Nor is he one of those who believes merely that the state should favor religion in general or a specific religion or set of religions in particular. His view is that law is derived from religion, and that it is the state's duty to enforce religious law. Therefore, he is not obligated to follow the dictates of the Supreme Court or any other court on this matter.
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Post by AYC on Jan 7, 2016 9:42:43 GMT
His view is that law is derived from religion, and that it is the state's duty to enforce religious law. Therefore, he is not obligated to follow the dictates of the Supreme Court or any other court on this matter. What the fuck. Did he miss the part where it says that "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion"? People like him and Kim Davis are a perfect example of why religion needs to be kept out the public sphere. At this point I'd be perfectly fine with enforcing French-style laicism, fundies be damned.
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 7, 2016 15:41:18 GMT
His view is that law is derived from religion, and that it is the state's duty to enforce religious law. Therefore, he is not obligated to follow the dictates of the Supreme Court or any other court on this matter. What the fuck. Did he miss the part where it says that "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion"? People like him and Kim Davis are a perfect example of why religion needs to be kept out the public sphere. At this point I'd be perfectly fine with enforcing French-style laicism, fundies be damned. They interpret it in several ways. One is that it only applies to Congress, and thus it allows the states to establish a religion or more (And never mind the 14th Amendment*). Another is that it can't prohibit laws based on religion. Some argue that it can't prohibit any denomination of Christianity, as the US is a Christian Nation (And never mind the Treaty of Tripoli, among numerous sources). Some argue that the US's laws are based on the Bible (never mind lots of things), and thus it's entirely legal to discriminate based on religion. Some just don't care and view any government not expressly based on Christianity as illegitimate. In my case, I'm a baptist (in part based on upbringing and in part based on personal views), but I'm the old type of Baptist that favors no state involvement with religion whatsoever, beyond minimal things like chaplains, occasional invocations (though those must be open to all)**, protecting historic sites and similar stuff. I'm not a fan of the subsidies to "faith-based" institutions, many of which have produced little to no results (Sadly, religion can be as corrupt as business at times), and some of which pursue detrimental policies (such as using federal funds to aid missionary activity, which is illegal). Further, as someone who is familiar with businesses and institutions using the logic of religion to discriminate (Two noted cases were from my state (Bob Jones University vs. United States and Newman vs. Piggie Park Enterprises)), I'm not a fan of businesses and institutions doing so. * Then again, some in that group don't like that either, as it came from the Civil War, and many of that religious type do prefer the expressly religion-invoking CSA. (Further, one important thinker to them is Robert Louis Dabney, who wrote a defense of slavery after the Civil War, and who wrote articles hostile to numerous things like equal rights for women.) ** I might not go as far as some predecessors in the religion I was brought up in. Way back when, the Kehukee Association (considered to be one of the more prominent groups in forming what would be known as the Primitive Baptists) even opposed chaplains in Congress and the military!
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Mathuen
Junior Member
马萨诸塞州, 中华人民共和国 (Trapped Yo)
Posts: 70
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Post by Mathuen on Jan 7, 2016 18:17:07 GMT
Meh, less that and more that Alabama, having elected judges, has always had a problem with stuff like this, "stuff" being judges simply rejecting district and federal rulings because fuck it. Doesn't help that Justice Moore has less than 2 years left before he has to retire and so has been fucking with everyone.
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 7, 2016 20:54:03 GMT
Meh, less that and more that Alabama, having elected judges, has always had a problem with stuff like this, "stuff" being judges simply rejecting district and federal rulings because fuck it. Doesn't help that Justice Moore has less than 2 years left before he has to retire and so has been fucking with everyone. Of course, it's not like he didn't try things like this before, back the last time he was Chief Justice.
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Post by ToixStory on Jan 9, 2016 20:02:15 GMT
Luckily, several smaller judges have been seen on social media essentially saying they'll defy the Chief Justice Fuckhead's orders, so gay marriage will win. I'll be happy to see his name become the equivalent to a curse within a generation or two.
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Mathuen
Junior Member
马萨诸塞州, 中华人民共和国 (Trapped Yo)
Posts: 70
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Post by Mathuen on Jan 9, 2016 21:39:06 GMT
Luckily, several smaller judges have been seen on social media essentially saying they'll defy the Chief Justice Fuckhead's orders, so gay marriage will win. I'll be happy to see his name become the equivalent to a curse within a generation or two. That happened last time with a case on gender nonconforming and transgender workplace discrimination in Alabama-Georgia-Florida. One of the judges tried to rally the local judges to "beat back the degenerates" and they all told him to go fuck himself and enforced workplace protection out of spite.
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 10, 2016 3:49:14 GMT
Luckily, several smaller judges have been seen on social media essentially saying they'll defy the Chief Justice Fuckhead's orders, so gay marriage will win. I'll be happy to see his name become the equivalent to a curse within a generation or two. That happened last time with a case on gender nonconforming and transgender workplace discrimination in Alabama-Georgia-Florida. One of the judges tried to rally the local judges to "beat back the degenerates" and they all told him to go fuck himself and enforced workplace protection out of spite. It does help that there is a strong tendency to encourage doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. The Golden Rule beats enforced religious conformity...some of the time, at least.
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