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Post by crustyoldssg on Feb 19, 2016 2:15:00 GMT
What are some of your thoughts concerning voter ID laws requiring voters to show photo identification proving that the one is indeed a living breathing resident of the state that they are voting in?We just had a number of of primaries around the state here in WI and the law,which had been upheld by SCOTUS four times had been on hold due to a questionable ruling by a county judge prior to the 2012 races,but has since been upheld in the federal courts again and implemented.Of course,there were the predictable howls of outrage when non resident students and military personnell were not allowed to illegally cast ballots here-exactly as the law intended.
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Post by ToixStory on Feb 19, 2016 3:00:02 GMT
I think voter ID laws are just fine...if the state issues them for free to all citizens by mail. Let's be real, in a lot of places they are used to suppress poor, unconnected voters (often black or other minority) in the same way that requiring reading tests were back in the 19th century. If you want to block out of state voters and military voters, that's fine, but issue the licenses for free and via mail, not force the voters to pay for one or to go to a federal building (often not very close, especially when states like Alabama close a ton of the DMVs; you're fucked if you don't have the money for a car).
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Post by orvillethird on Feb 19, 2016 3:19:26 GMT
I believe they are a waste of money and time, and wind up making the vote less secure. This post will be long, but will explain why. Here in SC, we used to accept three forms of ID at the polls. -SC Voter Identification Card (Name, DoB, address, signature, voter ID number. Issued for free at any county election commission or in mail. Does not expire unless redistricted.) -SC DMV Driver's License (Name, DoB, address, signature, photo. Issued for money at any DMV. Expires.) -SC DMV State ID (Name, DoB, address, signature, photo. Issued for money at any DMV. Expires.)
Not long ago, there was a push to try and amend the law to only allow for photo ID being used. In the leadup to this, the attorney general (Alan Wilson- Joe Wilson's son) stated that numerous people had voted illegally, per his office's examination of state records. This was front-page news. So, they changed the law. Here were the forms of ID they would accept by law: -SC DMV Driver's License (Name, address, signature, photo. Issued for money at any DMV. Expires.) -SC DMV State ID (Name, address, signature, photo. Issued for money at any DMV. Expires.) -SC Voter Identification Card (Name, DoB,address, signature, voter ID number, photo. Issued for free at any county election commission upon request. Does not expire unless redistricted.) -US Military ID (Name, signature, photo. Issued for free by DoD. Expires.) -US Military CAC card (Name, photo. Issued for free by DoD or other agencies (I'm not sure if DHS or Commerce's would qualify). May expire.) -US Passport (Name, DoB, Photo. Issued by the State Department. Expires.) -US Passport Card (Name, DoB, Photo. Issued by the State Department. Expires.)
Well, the DoJ challenged them over this. The state and DoJ fought in court, but wound up settling with some changes. (Had SC not been so impatient, and waited until Shelby County vs. Holder was decided, SC could have gotten off scot-free.) Now, we accept the following: -SC DMV Driver's License (Name, address, signature, photo. Issued for money at any DMV. Expires.) -SC DMV State ID (Name, address, signature, photo. Issued for free at any DMV. Expires.) (Note change.) -SC Voter Identification Card (Name, DoB,address, signature, voter ID number, photo. Issued for free at any county election commission upon request. Does not expire unless redistricted.) -US Military ID (Name, signature, photo. Issued for free by DoD. Expires.) -US Military CAC card (Name, photo. Issued for free by DoD or other agencies (I'm not sure if DHS or Commerce's would qualify). May expire.) -US Passport (Name, DoB, Photo. Issued by the State Department. Expires.) -US Passport Card (Name, DoB, Photo. Issued by the State Department. Expires.) -US VA Veteran's ID card (Name, photo. Issued for free by the VA. Does not expire.)
So, we now have more sources of identification to keep track of. Many of those forms of ID don't have important information, like addresses or signatures. None of the new sources give access to the voter's voter ID number. People need access to DMVs or county election commissions to get ID there. Many of the forms of ID expire. In addition, many of those forms of ID have other uses than merely voting. Some gain access to military facilities. Some gain access to benefits. Some are commonly used for identification to purchase alcohol or tobacco. Thus, there's a greater market for fake versions of those cards. (I haven't heard of people selling fake voter registration cards. I've heard of lots of places that sell fake IDs.)
As for the claims of alleged voting fraud? The SC State Law Enforcement Division looked into them... almost all of them could be explained as accidents or voters dying after they had cast an absentee ballot. None were found to be considered worthy of prosecution. (Incidentally, this report received little to no coverage. My local paper buried it in the second page of the local section.)
I should point out that I am a pollworker, and have worked the polls since 2004. (In fact, I plan to work the polls in two days for the Republican Primary, and plan to return the next week to work the Democratic Primary.) I have every reason to value the integrity of the voting process. (I get very upset when a voter fails to sign the poll list or things get messed up. However, I know the majority of voters are honest people, and this simply inconveniences them. In fact, despite all the attention given to this issue, there have been dozens of voters who brought their voter registration cards to the polls and were turned away or had to pull out other ID cards. (Incidentally, this was in a middle-class, Republican-leaning area.) Meanwhile, not only was nothing done about the Jim Crow-era law which formerly made our state unique in having parties run the presidential primaries and open only as many as they wanted (This aroused controversy in 2000, after they planned to close 1/5 of the polling places. A lawsuit required Republicans to notify people of the closings at least 24 hours prior...my home county did not- and even closed more places than they told the DoJ they would close. Two of the three Republicans in the race (John McCain and Alan Keyes) called for an investigation.), but more states decided to follow SC's lead...and now, thanks to Shelby County, the DoJ can't stop things like this from happening.
In short, it's disturbing, will not help ensure the integrity of the vote, and may in fact make it less safe.
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nanwe
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by nanwe on Feb 19, 2016 18:34:44 GMT
I think voter ID laws are just fine...if the state issues them for free to all citizens by mail. Let's be real, in a lot of places they are used to suppress poor, unconnected voters (often black or other minority) in the same way that requiring reading tests were back in the 19th century. If you want to block out of state voters and military voters, that's fine, but issue the licenses for free and via mail, not force the voters to pay for one or to go to a federal building (often not very close, especially when states like Alabama close a ton of the DMVs; you're fucked if you don't have the money for a car). Borrowing from Spain's ID system... Why not just have the sheriff's offices/ police offices or city councils issue IDs? Although I think there's a certain degree of danger about sending IDs by mail. But you know, the problem could be solved easily, by just making electoral censuses compulsory, like in continental Europe, if you are in the population census and you're over 18, you're automatically registered to vote.
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Post by ToixStory on Feb 20, 2016 18:34:45 GMT
I think voter ID laws are just fine...if the state issues them for free to all citizens by mail. Let's be real, in a lot of places they are used to suppress poor, unconnected voters (often black or other minority) in the same way that requiring reading tests were back in the 19th century. If you want to block out of state voters and military voters, that's fine, but issue the licenses for free and via mail, not force the voters to pay for one or to go to a federal building (often not very close, especially when states like Alabama close a ton of the DMVs; you're fucked if you don't have the money for a car). Borrowing from Spain's ID system... Why not just have the sheriff's offices/ police offices or city councils issue IDs? Although I think there's a certain degree of danger about sending IDs by mail. But you know, the problem could be solved easily, by just making electoral censuses compulsory, like in continental Europe, if you are in the population census and you're over 18, you're automatically registered to vote. Personally I'm against voter IDs and agree that you should be automatically registered to vote when you're 18. I was just giving an example that, if you have to have them, that they should be completely free and easy to attain. The problem is that, often, they are neither because they are made solely to keep disadvantaged people from voting. It's a new take on tactics that have been around since 1865.
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Post by lordroel on Feb 24, 2016 20:05:35 GMT
Borrowing from Spain's ID system... Why not just have the sheriff's offices/ police offices or city councils issue IDs? Although I think there's a certain degree of danger about sending IDs by mail. But you know, the problem could be solved easily, by just making electoral censuses compulsory, like in continental Europe, if you are in the population census and you're over 18, you're automatically registered to vote. Personally I'm against voter IDs and agree that you should be automatically registered to vote when you're 18. I was just giving an example that, if you have to have them, that they should be completely free and easy to attain. The problem is that, often, they are neither because they are made solely to keep disadvantaged people from voting. It's a new take on tactics that have been around since 1865. Wait you do not have these ID law, in my country every person when outside has to carry a ID and when the police ask for it, you have to show it or face a very heavy fine if you cannot show it.
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Post by orvillethird on Feb 24, 2016 22:34:05 GMT
Personally I'm against voter IDs and agree that you should be automatically registered to vote when you're 18. I was just giving an example that, if you have to have them, that they should be completely free and easy to attain. The problem is that, often, they are neither because they are made solely to keep disadvantaged people from voting. It's a new take on tactics that have been around since 1865. Wait you do not have these ID law, in my country every person when outside has to carry a ID and when the police ask for it, you have to show it or face a very heavy fine if you cannot show it. In the USA, there has been a group of people who are rather opposed to things like this. (Oddly, they happen to be on the opposite end of the spectrum from those who are opposed to requiring photo ID to vote. I'm an exception in that I oppose increased enforced use of IDs in general.)
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Post by ToixStory on Feb 25, 2016 0:29:33 GMT
Personally I'm against voter IDs and agree that you should be automatically registered to vote when you're 18. I was just giving an example that, if you have to have them, that they should be completely free and easy to attain. The problem is that, often, they are neither because they are made solely to keep disadvantaged people from voting. It's a new take on tactics that have been around since 1865. Wait you do not have these ID law, in my country every person when outside has to carry a ID and when the police ask for it, you have to show it or face a very heavy fine if you cannot show it. You don't have to have one, but most people do. The people who don't usually are very poor and also often uninformed about how to get one, as in some places it can be unusually hard to obtain one. Such as, for example, needing an eye exam (can't remember if that bit was overturned) to get an ID but some poor people obviously, with our broken healthcare system, can't afford the hundreds of dollars for eye doctor appointments and glasses/contact and thus can't get one.
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Post by orvillethird on Feb 25, 2016 5:53:15 GMT
Wait you do not have these ID law, in my country every person when outside has to carry a ID and when the police ask for it, you have to show it or face a very heavy fine if you cannot show it. You don't have to have one, but most people do. The people who don't usually are very poor and also often uninformed about how to get one, as in some places it can be unusually hard to obtain one. Such as, for example, needing an eye exam (can't remember if that bit was overturned) to get an ID but some poor people obviously, with our broken healthcare system, can't afford the hundreds of dollars for eye doctor appointments and glasses/contact and thus can't get one. One group of people who don't have IDs are often old people. The thing is with them, they may not need them. If they bank, they know the people they bank with. (If people bank at the same place long enough, they get well known.) Many do not (or cannot) drive. Some may not have some documents. (My grandmother had to order a marriage certificate from Illinois.)
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