Sid Meier's Civilization thread

[Krall]

Feb 26, 2017 22:06:12 GMT steve59 said:

  That matches with what I remember from Civ 2.  Also that some terrain without roads, especially jungles & mountains, but to a degree also hills, deserts and forests IIRC would take more movement.  Movement along a river used to cost less, think it was only 1/3 but I don't know if that's the case in Civ 5?

I forget how rivers work in earlier games, but in Civ V they're between tiles - like the border between one tile and another is a river - and crossing a river generally uses up the rest of your movement. Moving along rivers gives no bonus movement.

Feb 26, 2017 22:06:12 GMT steve59 said:

  Krall - It was that highlighted above which made it sound to me like otherwise improvements now had maintainence costs.  Possibly I mis-understood?

Oh, yeah I was quoting the description of the ability that the game gives you, which says "tile improvements" when in reality it's only roads and railroads that cost gold to maintain. That confused me when I first saw it too - it's poor wording on the game's part. Sorry about that.

[steve59]

Krall

OK thanks for clarifying.

So rivers lose their influence as conduates for tranport and proably their economics boost. Used to get an extra point of trade income for each river tile in use by population.

Which makes me think. In Civ 2 for every lvl of population in a city you could either have people employed as scientests, taxmen or entertainers or, in most cases have one employed in a tile in the cities range. It was only those tiles that were economically active so you could adjust where those people were to boost/lower production/income/whatever. Has this been replaced by the workers you mentioned earlier? Or are they replacements for the engineers you used to have in Civ 2. If your not familiar with them they were kind of super settlers who could do a hell of a lot more in terms of transforming land, building irrigration, roads, mines, railways a lot faster than settlers.

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Feb 28, 2017 16:58:17 GMT steve59 said:

Krall

OK thanks for clarifying.

So rivers lose their influence as conduates for tranport and proably their economics boost. Used to get an extra point of trade income for each river tile in use by population.

Which makes me think. In Civ 2 for every lvl of population in a city you could either have people employed as scientests, taxmen or entertainers or, in most cases have one employed in a tile in the cities range. It was only those tiles that were economically active so you could adjust where those people were to boost/lower production/income/whatever. Has this been replaced by the workers you mentioned earlier? Or are they replacements for the engineers you used to have in Civ 2. If your not familiar with them they were kind of super settlers who could do a hell of a lot more in terms of transforming land, building irrigration, roads, mines, railways a lot faster than settlers.

1. There is no such thing as "trade income." Your city can (and is expected to) produce a lot of science and gold simultaneously. Also, there's very few tiles, outside of resources, that will actually provide you gold income, fewer still science income, you have to find certain Natural Wonders for that. Instead, Oceans mostly just produce extra food and deserts (those were the two, right?) produce nothing without Petra or a hill.

2. Rivers still have some economic advantages, but they're smaller. Firstly, if you have a city next to a river, you can produce a watermill, which gives +1 food and production for the city (a large enough boost for small cities getting started), later in the game rivers give a +1 food bonus to farms (although other farms will get this +1 bonus later), and in the late game you can build a Hydraulic Plant, which gives +1 production to every tile next to a river. That's all I can remember at the top of my head, and I think that's really it.

3. That system is mostly still in place. You still need to put a pop on a tile to actually work it (although luxury and strategic resources automatically are obtained when you build the respective improvement, even if the tile isn't being worked). The biggest tweak is that inside the city there's just across-the-board Specialists, which you need buildings in order to employ. Specialists give a flat +2 bonus, I believe, to producing their respective thing, whether gold, science, or production (was their a culture one, Krall? I don't remember), but also a bonus to getting great people.

[Krall]

Feb 28, 2017 16:58:17 GMT steve59 said:

Krall

OK thanks for clarifying.

So rivers lose their influence as conduates for tranport and proably their economics boost. Used to get an extra point of trade income for each river tile in use by population.

In vanilla Civ V all tiles bordering a river did get +1 Gold, but in the Brave New World expansion they reworked the economy so it's difficult to get gold from tiles and you have to establish trade routes betweeen cities instead, though there's a +25% bonus to the amount of money a trade route generates for a city if it's next to a river. So it still provides an economic bonus.

Feb 28, 2017 16:58:17 GMT steve59 said:

Which makes me think. In Civ 2 for every lvl of population in a city you could either have people employed as scientests, taxmen or entertainers or, in most cases have one employed in a tile in the cities range. It was only those tiles that were economically active so you could adjust where those people were to boost/lower production/income/whatever. Has this been replaced by the workers you mentioned earlier? Or are they replacements for the engineers you used to have in Civ 2. If your not familiar with them they were kind of super settlers who could do a hell of a lot more in terms of transforming land, building irrigration, roads, mines, railways a lot faster than settlers.

Ah, it sounds like civilian units worked a lot differently in the early games. In Civ V (and Civ IV, if I remember right) there are two main civilian units - Settlers and Workers. Settlers only exist to found new cities - they don't do anything else. Workers only exist to build tile improvements (roads, farms, mines, etc.) - they don't do anything else.

City population levels are generally called Citizens - each Citizen can be assigned to work a tile around the city (in Civ V it's any tile within 3 tiles of the tile the city is on) or work as a specialist. In Civ V certain buildings have specialist slots which citizens can work in, generally producing a decent amount of just one resource (e.g. Scientist slots produce science, Merchant slots produce gold, Artist slots produce culture, etc.). I don't think there were Great People in the earlier games, but in Civ V each city can accumulate points towards producing various types of Great People (Great Scientists, Great Prophets, Great Merchants, etc.), and when they have enough a Great Person of that type appears at that city. Great People points are mainly produced by specialists, but are also produced by wonders, so if you have a lot of citizens working as scientists then you accumulate points towards a Great Scientists faster. Each Great Person has a special action they can do related to their area, or they can build a special tile improvement that produces a lot of their related resource (e.g. Great Scientists can give you a bunch of science straight away, or build an Academy which produces a lot of science if worked by a Citizen) - doing either uses up the Great Person. Citizens can also be unemployed, which means they don't work a tile around the city or work as a specialist and just produce 1 production, as well as making the city more unhappy.

So the civilian units are more specialised, city population works basically the same but you need to build certain buildings to open up slots for citizens to work as specialists, and there are Great People units now.

EDIT:

Feb 28, 2017 19:08:42 GMT MinnesotaNationalist said:

1. There is no such thing as "trade income." Your city can (and is expected to) produce a lot of science and gold simultaneously. Also, there's very few tiles, outside of resources, that will actually provide you gold income, fewer still science income, you have to find certain Natural Wonders for that. Instead, Oceans mostly just produce extra food and deserts (those were the two, right?) produce nothing without Petra or a hill.

I think in vanilla Civ V ocean tiles and tiles next to rivers produced Gold, but in Brave New World only certain luxury resources and trading posts (a late game tile improvement) will cause a tile to produce gold - you have to get gold income by building trade units and setting up trade routes between your cities and ones outside your empire instead.

Feb 28, 2017 19:08:42 GMT MinnesotaNationalist said:

2. Rivers still have some economic advantages, but they're smaller. Firstly, if you have a city next to a river, you can produce a watermill, which gives +1 food and production for the city (a large enough boost for small cities getting started), later in the game rivers give a +1 food bonus to farms (although other farms will get this +1 bonus later), and in the late game you can build a Hydraulic Plant, which gives +1 production to every tile next to a river. That's all I can remember at the top of my head, and I think that's really it.

I forgot there were buildings you can only build in cities next to rivers, but being next to a river also gives a bonus to the income of trade routes connecting to that city.

Feb 28, 2017 19:08:42 GMT MinnesotaNationalist said:

3. That system is mostly still in place. You still need to put a pop on a tile to actually work it (although luxury and strategic resources automatically are obtained when you build the respective improvement, even if the tile isn't being worked). The biggest tweak is that inside the city there's just across-the-board Specialists, which you need buildings in order to employ. Specialists give a flat +2 bonus, I believe, to producing their respective thing, whether gold, science, or production (was their a culture one, Krall? I don't remember), but also a bonus to getting great people.

There definitely are culture specialists (Artists). In Brave New World they expanded them out into 3 different types of specialist - Artists, Writers, and Musicians - each of which produce culture and have a different associated Great Person with different abilities. It's all tied into the reworked cultural victory in BNW, where you have to produce more Tourism than another civilisation's Culture in order to dominate their country's culture and cause them to "buy your blue jeans and listen to your pop music".

[steve59]

Guys

OK thanks. Back in Civ 2 all the tile developments was done by settlers, as well as their ability to start new settlements. [That may have been a major factor in my confusion when looking at Civ 5 before. Engineers were what you produced instead of settlers when a certain advance was researched - forget which - which were a lot more efficient.

As such the system has changed fairly drastically since then so I will have to have a look at this when I get home again.

Thanks again for the info.

Steve

[steve59]

Oops! Got home and checking I wasn't talking about struggling with Civ 4 but with Civ 3! Still busy catching up with things but will try and have a look in a couple of days. [Apart from anything else need to clear this evening for the final match in the 6 Nations. See if the guys can emulate the girls and the under 20's for a triple grand slam. [For any non western European] I'm talking rugger guys and the upcoming Ireland-England game!

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Cyrus the Great finally leads Persia in Sid Meier's Civilization VI



Dissapointed by the lack of time-traveling daggers.

Scythia and Persia will definitely be odds at each other, Persia getting bonus for starting surprise wars, while Tomyris hates people who start surprise wars.

The Immortals are taking a different route this time around, looking more like the Zulu Impis being a 'melee unit' with a ranged attack.

their trade route thing is pretty nice. Getting a free trade route with Political Philosophy (one of those civics you want to rush to anyways) is pretty nice, as well as getting a bonus to internal trade routes (but I'd like to see how big the bonus is before judging).

There's also their Unique infrastructure, which looks like it's really good at making high appeal out of naturally low appeal tiles.

altogether, looks like a moderately decent Civ, but it's hard to rank civs against each other

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Alexander leads Macedon, not Greece, in Sid Meier's Civilization VI


Little bit shocked that they added a 3rd ancient Greece civ to the game, but I guess we needed someone to conquer Persia.

What do I really have to say about Alexander? He seems to be the militaristic wrecking machine as of now (assuming he can actually win, of course).

[Krall]

Mar 22, 2017 18:18:50 GMT MinnesotaNationalist said:

Alexander leads Macedon, not Greece, in Sid Meier's Civilization VI

Little bit shocked that they added a 3rd ancient Greece civ to the game, but I guess we needed someone to conquer Persia.

What do I really have to say about Alexander? He seems to be the militaristic wrecking machine as of now (assuming he can actually win, of course).

Yeah, they really seem to be overvaluing the Greeks, especially since they chose a Ptolmeic ruler for Egypt instead of a more distinctly Egyptian pre-Hellenic ruler.

[lordroel]

I am watching YouTube where somebody instead of playing countries in Civ has them play against each other on AI, never knew that was possible.

[spanishspy]

Jun 3, 2017 21:47:46 GMT lordroel said:

I am watching YouTube where somebody instead of playing countries in Civ has them play against each other on AI, never knew that was possible.

It's quite possible. It requires setting up a multiplayer game and setting yourself as an observer, whilst all the players are AI. 

[lordroel]

Jun 5, 2017 16:02:30 GMT spanishspy said:

Jun 3, 2017 21:47:46 GMT lordroel said:

I am watching YouTube where somebody instead of playing countries in Civ has them play against each other on AI, never knew that was possible.

It's quite possible. It requires setting up a multiplayer game and setting yourself as an observer, whilst all the players are AI. 

That sounds cool.

[Krall]

Jun 5, 2017 16:02:30 GMT spanishspy said:

It's quite possible. It requires setting up a multiplayer game and setting yourself as an observer, whilst all the players are AI. 

Sounds like a bit of a roundabout way to do it - Paradox Interactive games have built-in modes for observation games these days. I guess observing a game of EU4 is more interesting than watching a game of Civ, though.

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Amanitore leads Nubia in Sid Meier's Civilization VI.

Remember back in the good ol' days of 1 or 2 dlc ago when the developers were being called Eurocentric, and now they're being called PC SJWs. Will the masses ever be satisfied?

Amanitore looks like she'll be a pretty powerful production-focused civ, and one that'll actually by useful in the desert (I think I have yet to find 1 civ that's actually good in the desert. Egypt is the closest thing, but they should be sticking to the rivers). Not even to mention their ranged capabilities will probably be staggering.

[lordroel]

Jun 5, 2017 19:18:56 GMT Krall said:

Jun 5, 2017 16:02:30 GMT spanishspy said:

It's quite possible. It requires setting up a multiplayer game and setting yourself as an observer, whilst all the players are AI. 

Sounds like a bit of a roundabout way to do it - Paradox Interactive games have built-in modes for observation games these days. I guess observing a game of EU4 is more interesting than watching a game of Civ, though.

Yes EU 4 AI only games the person on YouTube i follow are sometimes very strange but also fun to watch.

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Jayavarman VII leads the Khmer in Sid Meier's Civilization VI

A civilization I wanted, with the exact leader I wanted. Fraptuous day, calou calay!

Now let's unpack this bag of overpoweredness. Aqueducts provide faith and amenities, and farms built next to them provide extra food. They have a siege weapon that can move and shoot and has ZoC. Their holy sites cause a culture bomb, and provide more food and housing when on a river, and then in those holysites they have a temple that automatically provides the Martyr upgrade to their missionaries of all people and provides a slot to put that relic in. Paired with the Mont Saint Michel, this is an ironically unholy combination of power. So yeah, a bit OP.

At least, assuming the update doesn't change this.

Oh yes, Civ VI's update coming with it, which provides at least 2 units that purchased with faith, making Religious Warfare much more like tradition Warfare. Except that you don't control the cities you conquer. www.civilization.com/news/entries/religion-gets-a-reboot-in-the-civilization-vi-fall-2017-update

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Dyah Gitarja leads Indonesia in Sid Meier's Civilization VI

I've been staring at the edge of the water long as I can remember, without ever knowing why
I wish I could be the perfect daughter, but I come back to the water, no matter how hard I try

Ultimate Sea Civ. If they do end up adding Polynesia, I don't know how they'll be able to top it. Only Australia would really give it competition. Between having the only improvement so far that can built at sea that doesn't require being built on a resource, or the bonuses to several districts built on the coast, or boats boats boats

edit: figure out a way to make Polynesia the next ultimate Sea Civ: They can build districts in shallow water.

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Well, it's time for the first expansion of Sid Meier's Civilization VI. It's time for the Rise and Fall

Also, link to the Civilization Website that provides more information.

To say the least, it seems like an interesting expansion. I can't quite say that'll fix all the problems of Civ VI, but it'll solve some of the them, and make it a lot more rewarding to keep going. As a side note, is it just me or do some of the features feel like a "best of the best" compilation of some mechanics in the Paradox games, just refined or redone? I have long said since the original announcement that Civ VI felt like it was taking some ideas from Stellaris, but now it's expanding to the other Paradox games as well.

Anyways, some of the new mechanics:

Loyalty: Culture flipping is back. While they didn't go into a lot of detail into how it worked, I assume it's tied to amenities or something. But anyways, if a city has low Loyalty, you better watch out, because it might switch over to a competing Civilization or become a Free City (curious to see how that works out!). Another interesting thing they noted was that if you have a city with high loyalty, neighboring cities of a competing Civ might lose loyalty as they want to join your Empire

Golden Ages: A classic Civ trope that I completely didn't realize wasn't even in the game. Well, it's coming back. While I assume it comes with the standard bonuses to production and all that (at least indirectly), it also comes with Bonus Loyalty.

Dark Ages: In direct contrast to Golden Ages comes Dark Ages. They, of course, decrease loyalty, and probably other such things.

Heroic Ages: This is a Golden Age turned up to 11. These apparently can only come about immediately after a Dark Age. (I assume it goes something like "oh no, so many sick and dying people and OH BOY RENAISSACNE, WOOOOH!")

Another side note: apparently these different ages also come with their own Policy cards that are a lot more powerful than normal (yes, even Dark age).

Alliance changes: There are now 5 different type of alliances, only 1 of each being allowed at a time because they're so powerful (and I assume, because of that, you're locked to only 5 allies). These alliances include Science, Commerce, Military, Religious, and Cultural (although I assume that, despite having a "Military Alliance" type, all of these do have the standard call-to-arms stuff), and gives bonuses based on their type, which can changed later. The example they gave was the Science type, where if you have a Science alliance, you now get bonus science to trade routes (assumingly only the trade routes between the two allies, but it doesn't specify). BUT! On top of that, there are tiers to the alliances! That was the tier 1 bonus, the tier 2 bonus is now you get Eureka moments for Technology at regular intervals, and tier 3 you gain a bonus to research if you are both researching the same technology, or a bonus if one of you already has it.

That being said, before this expansion, the AI rarely ever joined Alliances, you'd be lucky if you got one alliance, luckier still to get 2, and I'd call you a hacker if you got 3, so I'll wait to see how prolific this Alliance thing will be.

Governors: I'm not sure if this is a new Great-Person type, or if it's a "semi-Great-Person" because you apparently still have to gather points to earn (or upgrade) them. Anyways, Governors, you place in a city, and they just start building things automatically. Notably though, each governor has a different personality and specialty, apparently. Some want to build as many wonders as possible, some want to build as many trade routes, assumingly others are very militaristic, so on so forth. So place them wisely.

Emergency Situation: Or, as I will call it "Coalition because your enemy has gained too much Aggressive Expansion." While, it isn't limited to Aggressive Expansion, it basically is a Coalition because one player has gone a bit too far. For example, using a nuke or converting a Holy City (I smell Crusades coming over the horizon), but also theoretically if they make it far down the Tech or Culture Tree from everyone else or has taken a Capital. If a player has reached a point where an Emergency Situation is called, the other competing players are given a choice to join this "Coalition" against them. If they refuse, alright, not harm no foul. If they do, they gain a mission against the Coalition Target. If they succeed, the Coalition Members gain a permanent bonus. If they lose, the Coalition Target gets a permanent bonus instead.

Historic Moments: This is that Paradox Classic mechanic that's being most notably implemented into Civ VI. Basically, throughout the game, they will record what the game considers to be some of your most important moments (although some seem rather mundane), and gain bonuses from these. These includes your Civ's first Circumnavigation and founding a Religion (assumingly also building Wonders and earning Great People), but also building your unique unit for the first time and building a district with high adjacency bonuses (also assuming capturing cities in war and all that). These Historic Moments help in starting a Golden Age.

And that really brings up the biggest thing being added by this expansion, a thing being added via most or all of these new mechanics: It's all about telling the Story of your Civilization, just like in a Paradox game you're telling the story of your Country or Dynasty.

[MinnesotaNationalist]

Queen Seondeok leads Korea in Sid Meier's Civilization VI

*Science intensifies*

Seriously, 3 out of Korea's 4 special abilities provide Science one way or another. +6 science from Science hub (-1 for each adjacent district. +1 for every adjacent mine), and then an addition bonus to science for the new Governors? Yeah, Korea is going to be landing on the moon by 1 AD.

Hwacha looks nice, like it did in Civ V. Devastating, but with a major weakness or two.

[Krall]

Dec 5, 2017 15:36:13 GMT MinnesotaNationalist said:

Queen Seondeok leads Korea in Sid Meier's Civilization VI

*Science intensifies*

Seriously, 3 out of Korea's 4 special abilities provide Science one way or another. +6 science from Science hub (-1 for each adjacent district. +1 for every adjacent mine), and then an addition bonus to science for the new Governors? Yeah, Korea is going to be landing on the moon by 1 AD.

Hwacha looks nice, like it did in Civ V. Devastating, but with a major weakness or two.

They were heavily science-focused in Civ V too - one of the few civs in that game with specific science bonuses. Looks like that tradition continues, which means they're probably going to be one of my favourite civs to play as.