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Post by Epic History on Jun 25, 2016 2:09:18 GMT
I think Palin likes the Brexit. And while they aren't politicians, I know Breitbart and National Review, the former on the Trump wing of the GOP and the latter on the Establishment wing of the GOP, have articles approving of the Brexit. I'd imagine every Democrat opposes it, of course. I don't understand why the average Liberal/Left wing voter here or even in the UK is so opposed to Brexit, honestly.
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Post by Rhand on Jun 25, 2016 5:21:54 GMT
I don't even think it's that big a deal. I think it's just one of those things where people look at politics like sports, and they just get into cheering for the home team. For them, Leave vs. Remain is similar to Chelsea vs. Man United.
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Post by Krall on Jun 25, 2016 5:38:58 GMT
I don't understand why the average Liberal/Left wing voter here or even in the UK is so opposed to Brexit, honestly. Mainly due to the economic implications - it's a massive disruption if nothing else - and the fact that the Leave lobby seem to be motivated primarily by xenophobia. There are a lot of benefits to being in the EU, and very few to leaving it due to anti-immigrant sentiment.
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Post by Epic History on Jun 25, 2016 8:16:59 GMT
I don't understand why the average Liberal/Left wing voter here or even in the UK is so opposed to Brexit, honestly. Mainly due to the economic implications - it's a massive disruption if nothing else - and the fact that the Leave lobby seem to be motivated primarily by xenophobia. There are a lot of benefits to being in the EU, and very few to leaving it due to anti-immigrant sentiment. I've always kinda got the vibe that it was more an issue of sovereignty at stake. It's very clear the EU is trying to ramp up integration, and with the recent moves to establish an EU Army as a prime example (And considering how underhanded the buildup to that has been, that alone justifies withdraw from the EU) of this. More or less, it's a matter of if your nation will be actually be one, or simply just a European province. I've also never got the Xenophobia/racist claim either, primarily because it just seems an odd claim to make when you have a predominantly (White) European nation pulling out of a union of fellow (White) Europeans. Plus, if nothing else, Leave has some dank memes:
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Post by Krall on Jun 25, 2016 19:23:08 GMT
I've always kinda got the vibe that it was more an issue of sovereignty at stake. It's very clear the EU is trying to ramp up integration, and with the recent moves to establish an EU Army as a prime example (And considering how underhanded the buildup to that has been, that alone justifies withdraw from the EU) of this. More or less, it's a matter of if your nation will be actually be one, or simply just a European province. I've also never got the Xenophobia/racist claim either, primarily because it just seems an odd claim to make when you have a predominantly (White) European nation pulling out of a union of fellow (White) Europeans. Race is less of an issue in Europe, and there's a surprising amount of bigotry against Eastern and Southern Europeans within the UK (not to mention Romani and Irish Travellers). Plus one of the arguments the Leave campaign used was that Turkey was going to join, and Turkey borders Iraq and Syria. That was the whole argument - just "Turkey's going to join, and they're near Iraq and Syria". No "... so that might cause certain negative effects which we will now explain" or any elaboration; just "WooOOOooo! Scary Muslims!". The EU has always been gradually moving towards integration - the preamble of the Treaty of Rome and many other European treaties state that their goal is "an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe" - so that shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Yes, that necessarily requires the erosion of the sovereignty of the British government, but I don't see why that's such a bad thing. Brits in general seem to have a low opinion of the efficacy of the British government, and I don't see why a European government would be any worse. Plus, if nothing else, Leave has some dank memes: Ugh. If I never have to see another picture of Nigel Farage it'll be too soon.
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jun 25, 2016 21:11:02 GMT
I've always kinda got the vibe that it was more an issue of sovereignty at stake. It's very clear the EU is trying to ramp up integration, and with the recent moves to establish an EU Army as a prime example (And considering how underhanded the buildup to that has been, that alone justifies withdraw from the EU) of this. More or less, it's a matter of if your nation will be actually be one, or simply just a European province. I've also never got the Xenophobia/racist claim either, primarily because it just seems an odd claim to make when you have a predominantly (White) European nation pulling out of a union of fellow (White) Europeans. Race is less of an issue in Europe, and there's a surprising amount of bigotry against Eastern and Southern Europeans within the UK (not to mention Romani and Irish Travellers). Plus one of the arguments the Leave campaign used was that Turkey was going to join, and Turkey borders Iraq and Syria. That was the whole argument - just "Turkey's going to join, and they're near Iraq and Syria". No "... so that might cause certain negative effects which we will now explain" or any elaboration; just "WooOOOooo! Scary Muslims!". The EU has always been gradually moving towards integration - the preamble of the Treaty of Rome and many other European treaties state that their goal is "an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe" - so that shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Yes, that necessarily requires the erosion of the sovereignty of the British government, but I don't see why that's such a bad thing. Brits in general seem to have a low opinion of the efficacy of the British government, and I don't see why a European government would be any worse. Plus, if nothing else, Leave has some dank memes: Ugh. If I never have to see another picture of Nigel Farage it'll be too soon. I heard somewhere that after the vote that Farage basically came out and said that two major things the leave campaign was championing on were basically just lies. Saying that 1: the money given to the EU that would now be used on the NHS instead is pretty minimal and 2: Britain wouldn't be as capable of limiting immigration as promised. I don't have a source for this, though.
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Post by Krall on Jun 25, 2016 22:00:11 GMT
I heard somewhere that after the vote that Farage basically came out and said that two major things the leave campaign was championing on were basically just lies. Saying that 1: the money given to the EU that would now be used on the NHS instead is pretty minimal and 2: Britain wouldn't be as capable of limiting immigration as promised. I don't have a source for this, though. I have a source for the first part right here: Admittedly Farage wasn't part of the Leave campaign organisation that promised that, but I certainly didn't hear him call them out on it. I don't know about the second part but - I don't have a source - I have heard people discussing something about Brits learning after the referendum that leaving the EU won't let Britain limit immigration much at all. Anyway, I fear this thread's heading too far into British Politics territory - anything interesting happening in the run-up to the US election?
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Post by Jasen777 on Jun 25, 2016 23:21:13 GMT
I don't understand why the average Liberal/Left wing voter here or even in the UK is so opposed to Brexit, honestly. Because the left is now the pragmatic realists while it's the right that is idealistic purists.
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Post by orvillethird on Jun 26, 2016 4:38:47 GMT
I think Palin likes the Brexit. And while they aren't politicians, I know Breitbart and National Review, the former on the Trump wing of the GOP and the latter on the Establishment wing of the GOP, have articles approving of the Brexit. I'd imagine every Democrat opposes it, of course. I don't understand why the average Liberal/Left wing voter here or even in the UK is so opposed to Brexit, honestly. I'm against it after finding out that deficit spending is extremely limited under Eurozone rules, and austerity is nearly a given. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/26/robert-mundell-evil-genius-euroAdd in what they did to Greece and Portugal (and their disastrous agreement they tried to push on Ukraine and only got after an armed overthrow of the elected government), and it's clear that the EU is not all it's promoted as.
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Post by orvillethird on Jun 27, 2016 1:47:39 GMT
In local politics news, I shall be casting my absentee vote tomorrow and going to the same polling place I did last time on Tuesday (unless things change, which they are not likely to). There are all of five runoffs going on in my county. A small section is voting to see if Lee Bright will stay in or get replaced by another Republican. My State Senate district has a runoff between Mike Fair (best known for saying Bush was not going after McCain hard enough, to which Bush replied, "I'm not going to hit him on TV") and an opponent. There is a runoff for Sheriff on the Republican side, between the incumbent and a former deputy. (Accusations have been flung all around.) There is a runoff for a County Council seat between two Republicans and one for a different County Council seat between two Democrats (The long-time incumbent suffered a stroke and has not been able to make the meetings). In a surprise bit of local news, SC picked its first openly gay legislator*...and he's a Republican who represents the district containing Bob Jones University... the one I happen to be in. www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/25/sc-gop-changing-says-states-first-openly-gay-legislator/86375764/Despite not agreeing with him on many things, I plan to back him. My mom on the other hand may be rather pissed. (Of course, we may have had a previous prominent officeholder who was not heterosexual, though he was likely bi, not gay, as he had relationships with women. (And they were not open.) Sadly for everyone, he was the infamous James Henry Hammond.) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Henry_Hammond * Unless someone mounts a write-in or petition campaign against him or wins on a third-party ticket.
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Post by orvillethird on Jun 29, 2016 2:11:34 GMT
Well, today was election day. All went well for me except one thing. I was in the bathroom. One of the pollworkers called me to help. (There were only three of us there- supposed to be four.) I came out, and I saw a voter at a machine. She said she had not voted. So, I activated the machine for her and she voted. She left with her sister and mother. Checked later- and there was one more vote than people who had checked in and signed in. On the other hand, everything else went well. In news from my local elections, almost all the incumbents in the area running tonight lost. My longtime state senator (best known for running against Jim DeMint from the right in his very first race and accusing George W. Bush for not being hard enough on John McCain) lost majorly. Lee Bright (Best known for running against Lindsey Graham, voting to keep the Confederate Flag up and proposing the Bathroom Bill in SC) lost narrowly (he got 48%). The incumbent Sheriff's race was close, but he lost narrowly. The county councilwoman who has not shown up to work after her stroke lost by one of the biggest margins.
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Post by Jasen777 on Jul 2, 2016 18:08:33 GMT
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Post by orvillethird on Jul 4, 2016 21:51:06 GMT
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jul 5, 2016 1:34:34 GMT
Some British asshole (whom I happened to be subscribed too and find funny, most of the time) has endorsed Donald Trump
Why am I posting this here? Firstly, again, I think their channel is funny. Secondly, he says Happy Independence day.
If I ever meet him, I'll make sure to hug him, then punch him in the face.
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Post by orvillethird on Jul 5, 2016 16:28:05 GMT
Well, the fix is in again. Clinton and her staff are above the law, per the FBI (Unlike, say, whistleblowers). Health to Guccifer and Guccifer 2. www.cnbc.com/2016/07/05/fbi-director-james-comey-has-concluded-the-investigation-into-clintons-emails.htmlMeanwhile, Wikileaks are promoting some of Clinton's emails in regards to Iraq. (Just in time for Chilcot!) www.commondreams.org/news/2016/07/05/wikileaks-releases-over-1200-clinton-emails-iraq-warAlso, while Clinton using a private email for her government business is not treated as a crime, another different former government official is coming under scrutiny for some of his emails- General Phillip Breedlove, former NATO commander. His emails show him trying to get various people to help him undermine the President. theintercept.com/2016/07/01/nato-general-emails/?comments=1#comments(Shameless plug: I wrote a comment in the article with a bit of extra info on him.) People are going after Hillary Clinton for...coughing. (To be fair, the Tenth Doctor said something similar which brought down PM Harriet Jones.) www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/30/is-hillary-clinton-s-cough-the-new-benghazi.htmlTrump's theology is now under scrutiny. www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2016/march-web-only/theology-of-donald-trump.html?visit_source=twitterwww.nytimes.com/2016/07/05/opinion/campaign-stops/the-theology-of-donald-trump.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0On to the polls! A recent poll shows Clinton with a slim 5 point lead on Trump. I'm more pleased by the good showing of Gary Johnson (8%) and Jill Stein (3%). Any shift in votes from the evils to the good is a good thing. www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/04/usa-today-suffolk-poll-voters-alarmed-trump-clinton/86632526/Meanwhile, in a PPP poll, voters were given the choice between Clinton, Trump and a giant meteor destroying earth. Clinton had 43%, Trump had 38%, and the meteor had 13%. 7% were undecided. www.indystar.com/story/news/2016/06/30/giant-meteor-hitting-earth-polling-well-presidential-election/86572136/
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jul 5, 2016 17:08:53 GMT
To be fair, Trump or Clinton being elected would have a similar effect, only slower and more painful
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Post by Jasen777 on Jul 5, 2016 22:31:26 GMT
Is that meteor's name Gary Johnson?
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Post by spanishspy on Jul 6, 2016 0:01:56 GMT
Is that meteor's name Gary Johnson? Sometimes I wish it was.
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Post by Rhand on Jul 6, 2016 0:53:43 GMT
I'd vote for Johnson over Trump, even though Trump had the courage to talk about his Johnson on a debate stage, which earns him points in my book.
-------------------------------
As for the NYTimes article, I've said this elsewhere, but I'll say it here. We on the Right are fine with safe spaces and political correctness and all that stuff. What we object to is people trying to make the world their safe space. And I think you guys on the Left will agree. Let's try this:
Wouldn't you guys feel angry if you were attending a secular discussion on abortion, and militant evangelical students stormed the stage, shut down the forum, and ruined the night? That's what we felt when BLM stormed the stage of Milo's event at Depaul.
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Post by orvillethird on Jul 6, 2016 16:01:53 GMT
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