westvirginiarebel
Junior Member
I have been banned from alternate-timelines.com?
Posts: 50 
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Post by westvirginiarebel on Jan 17, 2016 6:59:24 GMT
WI the US and Britain had been more successful in intervening in the Russian Civil War and a rump white (?) Russian government had been established somewhere outside of the Soviet Union; how long would this government last?
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Post by huojin on Jan 17, 2016 14:01:26 GMT
"Rump" denotes continuing to hold some element of your former territory, so if you want it outside of the USSR but within former territory your options are somewhat limited to Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland - none of whom are inclined particularly to be overly cooperative, given they rebelled under their own steam historically. There are of course some other sovereign states established after the Civil War, but all save those I listed were integrated into the Soviet Union or fell under its influence in short order (... as were all of these save Finland, actually).
Unless you want them to hold some element of what was the USSR at war's end. Either way, the long and the short of it is any White government would not have lasted long at all - one of the aims of the Soviets was to secure themselves against counter-revolution. I am also sceptical of any greater, significant Allied intervention in Russia, given the circumstances under which they intervened in the first place. But whatever.
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Post by tardis218 on Jan 17, 2016 15:36:05 GMT
I pretty much agree with what huojin has said when it comes to a White Russia outside the Soviet Union's borders at the time. I could see a brief white state in Siberia(?) in certain area that were more loyal to the Tsar. But, even with Allied backing, they would fall pretty quickly. Since well, the Soviet steamroller couldn't be stopped by that point.
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Firesofdoom
New Member
Posts: 13
Pronouns: Fe/Fi/Fo/Fum
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Post by Firesofdoom on Jan 17, 2016 17:27:01 GMT
The only real way even a weak white state could be established would be full on military intervention from the brits and other major nations, which would be a bad idea on a lot of other levels.
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 17, 2016 22:19:23 GMT
There was a section on the US aid to the Whites in Max Boot's "The Savage Wars of Peace", and he listed a few chances where white forces nearly met.
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ruth
New Member
pining for the fjords
Posts: 35 
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Post by ruth on Jan 17, 2016 23:38:47 GMT
I know some of the areas of Primorye/"Green Ukraine" held out into the 20s due to the backing and support of US/UK/Japan/allies/etc. Can a white Russia/Transbaikal/Green Ukraine/some other kind of Russian successor state feasibly survive with roughly the territory of the OTL Far Eastern Republic? The Soviet Union deprived of access to a warm-water port in the Pacific would have some interesting knock-on effects later on. |
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Post by huojin on Jan 18, 2016 20:52:21 GMT
I know some of the areas of Primorye/"Green Ukraine" held out into the 20s due to the backing and support of US/UK/Japan/allies/etc. Can a white Russia/Transbaikal/Green Ukraine/some other kind of Russian successor state feasibly survive with roughly the territory of the OTL Far Eastern Republic? The Soviet Union deprived of access to a warm-water port in the Pacific would have some interesting knock-on effects later on. Anything surviving in the Far East would be little more than a Japanese puppet state, rather than a true White Russian successor state. And in terms of their willingness to remain involved in such a conflict when the Soviets would undoubtedly continue to perceive the existence of any white state as a threat to their own existence is questionable - it would entail a commitment beyond what Japan would be willing or able to make. By the war's end, the Japanese intervention had consumed half of their national budget for two years in a row, and their domestic position was increasingly divided politically in the struggle between the army and the government. You'd have more success with a definitively separatist movement based around nationality, or something non-White associated to isolate yourself from the rage of the Reds. |
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Post by crustyoldssg on Feb 6, 2016 5:54:59 GMT
Where exactly would they have gone?Poland perhaps,or Finland?
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Post by crustyoldssg on Feb 6, 2016 5:58:16 GMT
The only real way even a weak white state could be established would be full on military intervention from the brits and other major nations, which would be a bad idea on a lot of other levels. It would have required a huge commitment of western forces,and in the wake of WW1,there just was'nt the will for that.Perhaps the Germans could've pulled it off,if they had been re-armed by the victorious allies and sent east-they might have had more stomach for it than the Brits,French or Americans |
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