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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jan 25, 2016 21:17:41 GMT
How would Europe React to a fall of Vienna? What would happen to the Austrian Habsburgs and their state? Which parts would the Ottomans take, if any? What about Poland-Lithuania?
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Post by guyverman1990 on Jan 25, 2016 23:52:58 GMT
The Turks would've been all the more emboldened, whereas the rest of Christendom would've been demoralized further. If they succeeded in taking Vienna, nothing would've prevented them from advancing into Rome, the heart of Christendom and if that were the case, pretty much every Christian in Europe would seen such an event as God giving up on Christianity and submit to the Ottoman Empire.
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jan 26, 2016 0:00:12 GMT
I don't think so. The Ottoman state was just about to go through a period of stagnation and rebellion, and taking parts of Austria wouldn't help to this. I'm sure they could have kept their conquests from Austria, but any more and all of Europe would have been on them (maybe with the exception of their ally if France, but even then it would be quite a coalition)
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Post by Epic History on Jan 26, 2016 0:04:07 GMT
If they take it, they're almost immediately ejected by the incoming Polish reinforcements that arrived following the end of the siege.
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Post by eDGT on Jan 26, 2016 0:47:31 GMT
Could that lead to a period of Polish influence with Austria? Or at least a stronger friendship?
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shamiboy
Global Moderator 
A happy mane
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Post by shamiboy on Jan 26, 2016 2:22:06 GMT
It wouldn't change much at all, now if Vienna in 1529 fell to the Ottomans, it would have more of a impact.
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jan 26, 2016 6:07:35 GMT
Not exactly looking long term affects, just immediate and short term. The reason I ask this is because I'm planning to write a fairly short story that starts about 20 years after this event
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Post by guyverman1990 on Jan 26, 2016 19:01:36 GMT
Another change would be that Turkish words would definitely enter Austrian German.
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Post by eDGT on Jan 26, 2016 19:08:40 GMT
Another change would be that Turkish words would definitely enter Austrian German. Only if they manage to hold it for several generations, which won't happen. |
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Post by guyverman1990 on Jan 27, 2016 19:48:51 GMT
When it comes to the fate of the Habsburgs, being absorbed into conquering Ottoman nobility probably would've been for the better considering what the Habsburgs themselves were infamous for...
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Post by abdulhadipasha on Feb 5, 2016 3:05:17 GMT
I don't think so. The Ottoman state was just about to go through a period of stagnation and rebellion, and taking parts of Austria wouldn't help to this. I'm sure they could have kept their conquests from Austria, but any more and all of Europe would have been on them (maybe with the exception of their ally if France, but even then it would be quite a coalition) That was largely because of the failure to take Vienna and the disastrous aftermath, if you mean the 2nd siege, and not true if you mean the 1st. The impact of a victory at Vienna would mean very little to the future of the Ottoman Empire, but would be a pretty big blow to the prestige and power of the Habsburgs. Vienna is way, way too far away for the Ottomans to maintain long-term effective control, and it wouldn't suddenly open up Europe to Ottoman invasion. But it's hard to imagine the Habsburgs recovering from this. I'm not sure Suleyman would have even tried to hold it - probably just looted it and launched a few raids and gone home. The second siege was a pretty serious overreach, as subsequent events were to prove. I'm not sure it would have been all that good for the Ottomans if they had taken the city. There's a tendency to look at the Ottoman Empire in a rise-and-fall model - that's not the case. Like all other long-lived states, it had many ups and downs. The fluke is the early immense organizational advantage held by a centralized state against the fractured feudalism of Europe. The Ottoman domains were always far poorer and sparsely populated than Central & Western Europe, so the early near-hegemony was much like Japan's success in 1942. They were operating with thinner manpower & resources - they were just better at utilizing them, at least at first. |
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Post by abdulhadipasha on Feb 5, 2016 3:10:53 GMT
Another change would be that Turkish words would definitely enter Austrian German. Only if they manage to hold it for several generations, which won't happen. Europe borrowed an enormous amount of culture from the Ottomans - after they were no longer an existential threat. Have you ever noticed that there was no percussion in classical music until fairly recently? It's all Ottoman. Likewise our design aesthetic until the opening of Japan. So I'm agreeing with you. The only words that would make their way in would be food-related (coffee, yogurt, kebab, for example), if they can hold onto the city for a while. Although there are some strange borrowings, like the Slavic word for God being derived from the Turkic word for "lord" ('Bey' in modern Turkish.) and the weird way that the Polish nobility dressed like Turks. |
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Post by abdulhadipasha on Feb 5, 2016 3:14:36 GMT
Not exactly looking long term affects, just immediate and short term. The reason I ask this is because I'm planning to write a fairly short story that starts about 20 years after this event Realistically, Vienna would be a less important city and Linz would be the imperial capital. If you want to have the Ottomans still in control 20 years later, the city would start to look like other Balkan cities, with a Muslim & Jewish elite occupying the city and trading with the countryside. If the Ottomans have left, Vienna would likely be a romantic backwater with livestock tethered in the ruins of palaces. |
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Post by bytor on Feb 6, 2016 19:39:34 GMT
Europe borrowed an enormous amount of culture from the Ottomans - after they were no longer an existential threat. Have you ever noticed that there was no percussion in classical music until fairly recently? It's all Ottoman. Likewise our design aesthetic until the opening of Japan. Only if by "fairly recently" you mean Purcell's the Fairy Queen which had percussion at it's first performance in 1692, by which time it was firmly established as a part of an orchestra. But even that was the result of decades of style changes. For example, the Brothers Philidor were composing orchestral marches for Louis the XIV in the 1660s and 1670s, before the second siege of Vienna. I would recommend reading Percussion Instruments and their History, chapter 1, by James Blades to disabuse you of this notion. :-) |
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Jul 28, 2020 11:03:03 GMT
Jul 28, 2020 11:03:03 GMT