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Post by guyverman1990 on Feb 20, 2016 2:56:43 GMT
I would like to discuss what you think history could possibly be like if The Yamato people (ancestors of modern-day Japanese) never settled in the archipelago which we know today as Japan? This would mean the island's indigenous Ainu people will be free to roam, dominate and let their culture flourish for millennia to follow. Soon enough, the Ainu will be influenced by cultures from the mainland, specifically China just as the Japanese were in OTL and eventually develop an their own civilization.
What would such a theoretical Ainu civilization in the place of Japan be like? How would history go differently in terms of the Ainu's relationship with the outside world? Feel free to speculate.
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Post by Krall on Feb 23, 2016 3:41:21 GMT
I think the first question is how is this achieved? I believe the huntr-gatherers who are the ancestors of the Ainu were absorbed/destroyed by rice farming migrants from the mainland, so how could we avoid that? The hunter-gatherers would need to adopt a form of agriculture at least as effective as rice-farming. Perhaps they could adopt the mainlander's rice-farming methods before they're outcompeted by them? Alternatively they could develop agriculture independently based around a local plant that could serve as a staple crop. Taro/yams seem like the most likely candidate there, but acorns might also work - both were important staple foods during the Jomon period, immediately before the introduction of rice farming agriculture and migrations from the mainland during the Yayoi period.
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Post by Krall on Feb 24, 2016 21:59:11 GMT
Coming back to this, I'm not sure how much things would change in my "Ainu domesticate" scenario - I don't really know how proto-Ainu culture differed from that of the mainlanders, though I suppose if the Ainu are able to prevent themselves being absorbed/destroyed by the settlers then they'd be less likely to be influenced by China than the settlers that became the Japanese did in OTL. I guess there'd be countries of mixed proto-Ainu/Chinese culture where the two meet, mainly in Kyushu and southern Honshu, and maybe in southern Korea as well. That'd likely to change the whole dynamic of power in the region, though I don't know enough to know how. Anyone else have any ideas?  |
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Post by guyverman1990 on Feb 25, 2016 1:00:52 GMT
^Just to clarify, in this ATL I imagine the Ainu don't fight off the Yamato people, but rather the latter NEVER sets foot on the islands in the first place. Meanwhile in OTL, even after the Yamato people colonized the archipelago, the Chinese never tried to conquer and assimilate them (unless you count the Mongol Yuan dynasty's attempts). The relationship between Japan and China was always that of trade and cultural exchange.
I am assuming with the absence of the Yamato people, Sino-Ainu relations will be pretty much the same, such as the introduction of writing, farming, metalwork and (eventually) gunpowder. In addition, missionaries of new religions such as Buddhism will travel to the island as well. How would such Chinese influence affect a hunter-gatherer type of culture like the Ainu?
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Post by Krall on Feb 25, 2016 2:11:38 GMT
So, the Yamato people just don't exist, or they never migrate to the Japanese islands?
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Post by guyverman1990 on Feb 25, 2016 6:01:27 GMT
So, the Yamato people just don't exist, or they never migrate to the Japanese islands? The latter. |
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Post by Krall on Feb 25, 2016 14:59:23 GMT
In that case my question is: Why didn't they migrate to the Japanese islands? What's different from OTL that caused that to happen? |
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Post by guyverman1990 on Mar 2, 2016 18:24:21 GMT
In that case my question is: Why didn't they migrate to the Japanese islands? What's different from OTL that caused that to happen? Who knows? Why DID they migrate to Japan in OTL? |
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Post by Krall on Mar 2, 2016 23:37:04 GMT
Who knows? Why DID they migrate to Japan in OTL? It's hard to know for certain, but I'm guessing population pressure played a part of it - when Korean farming communities had more people than they could feed it would've made sense for some to move over to those nearby islands and set up farms there. If you can find a reason for that not to happen, you've found your PoD. |
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Post by guyverman1990 on Mar 3, 2016 0:39:04 GMT
Who knows? Why DID they migrate to Japan in OTL? It's hard to know for certain, but I'm guessing population pressure played a part of it - when Korean farming communities than they could feed it would've made sense for some to move over to those nearby islands and set up farms there. If you can find a reason for that not to happen, you've found your PoD. Did you miss a word or two? |
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Post by Krall on Mar 3, 2016 0:46:49 GMT
Did you miss a word or two? Oh bother. I've fixed it now, sorry about that! |
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Post by guyverman1990 on Mar 9, 2016 0:40:48 GMT
^Speaking of Korea, there is no clear consensus as to where the Japanese people originated. Whereas many have speculated Korea, there have been DNA tests that show evidence of people from somewhere south of the Yangtze River in China.
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Post by Krall on Mar 9, 2016 17:16:31 GMT
^Speaking of Korea, there is no clear consensus as to where the Japanese people originated. Whereas many have speculated Korea, there have been DNA tests that show evidence of people from somewhere south of the Yangtze River in China. Ah, okay. I was assuming it was Korea because that's the closest part of the mainland to Japan, as I'm no expert in this area. |
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