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Post by Kubo Caskett on Feb 27, 2016 1:33:53 GMT
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Post by Krall on Feb 27, 2016 5:19:09 GMT
I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Weimar Germany, but I doubt the Nazi regime would come to power in any manner similar to how it did in OTL. If the Beer Hall Putsch succeeds there would be no widely-publicised trial of Hitler to allow him to disseminate his ideas to a wider audience, and he wouldn't have 9 months in jail to write Mein Kampf. I believe the Beer Hall Putsch was meant to emulate/re-enact Mussolini's March on Rome, but considering that Germany had no monarchy which could support and legetimise the fascists as Victor Emmanuel III had in Italy, I would guess that a successful Beer Hall Putsch (in which the Nazi party seizes control of Munich and Bavaria) would be followed by an attempted March on Berlin, but without a constitutional/legitimate method for power to be handed over and without the trial and Mein Kampf to help propagate Hitler's views I would think there'd be a lot more resistance nationally, and a bloody civil war may be the result.
As I said though I'm not too knowledgeable on this area - can anyone with more knowledge of the Weimar Republic suggest what the reaction to a successful Beer Hall Putsch might be?
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Post by Jasen777 on Feb 27, 2016 5:57:03 GMT
Well if he managed to take over Munich (which itself seems unlikely) the reaction of the France and the U.K. would be interesting.
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Feb 27, 2016 7:16:44 GMT
Assuming that Hitler does somehow succeed to take over the government with minimal resistance by the people, I kind of want to say that he wouldn't be as extremist as he was, I kind of imagine that his time in jail was the final push to such extremism. He'd certainly have similar views, but I don't think he'd call for the killing of jews and communists. Certainly they'd still be persecuted though.
I imagine that'd he'd have a harder time starting up the German War Machine once more, especially if he wait until after the Great Depression hits.
Considering how close after this would be after Versailles, I somewhat imagine that the Western Powers would be somewhat more keen in keeping Germany in their place, but at the same time there's also the possibility that Hitler rather becomes an ally against the Communists.
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Post by orvillethird on Feb 29, 2016 15:39:59 GMT
Assuming that Hitler does somehow succeed to take over the government with minimal resistance by the people, I kind of want to say that he wouldn't be as extremist as he was, I kind of imagine that his time in jail was the final push to such extremism. He'd certainly have similar views, but I don't think he'd call for the killing of jews and communists. Certainly they'd still be persecuted though. I imagine that'd he'd have a harder time starting up the German War Machine once more, especially if he wait until after the Great Depression hits. Considering how close after this would be after Versailles, I somewhat imagine that the Western Powers would be somewhat more keen in keeping Germany in their place, but at the same time there's also the possibility that Hitler rather becomes an ally against the Communists. No killing Jews? Maybe. Communists? It's very likely he still would. And, given how only a few years back, the Whites got lots of aid from the West, I could see Hitler being built up against the Communists- and that would majorly backfire. |
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Post by Kubo Caskett on Mar 1, 2016 1:29:59 GMT
Assuming that Hitler does somehow succeed to take over the government with minimal resistance by the people, I kind of want to say that he wouldn't be as extremist as he was, I kind of imagine that his time in jail was the final push to such extremism. He'd certainly have similar views, but I don't think he'd call for the killing of jews and communists. Certainly they'd still be persecuted though. I imagine that'd he'd have a harder time starting up the German War Machine once more, especially if he wait until after the Great Depression hits. Considering how close after this would be after Versailles, I somewhat imagine that the Western Powers would be somewhat more keen in keeping Germany in their place, but at the same time there's also the possibility that Hitler rather becomes an ally against the Communists. No killing Jews? Maybe. Communists? It's very likely he still would. And, given how only a few years back, the Whites got lots of aid from the West, I could see Hitler being built up against the Communists- and that would majorly backfire. I think that might be plausible that the allies might see Hitler as the "lesser evil" compared to the Communists and secretly back him while at the same time don't bother in public given that the Allies just fought Germany over 5 years ago.
But who knows, I might be wrong there.
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Post by Krall on Mar 1, 2016 22:58:12 GMT
I think that might be plausible that the allies might see Hitler as the "lesser evil" compared to the Communists and secretly back him while at the same time don't bother in public given that the Allies just fought Germany over 5 years ago.
But who knows, I might be wrong there.
I think it's likely that they would support a fascist German government against German Communists and the USSR. The USSR seems to have been the bogeyman of the day, and given that Communists were also active in Germany at the time (the Hamburg Uprising started by the Communist Party was only a couple of weeks before the Beer Hall Putsch!) they might see the instability as an opportunity for the USSR to expand its influence in Germany. I'm not sure how likely it would be, but it'd be interesting to see a Spanish Civil War-esque situation develop, with the USSR supporting the socialists and the West supporting the fascists in a German civil war. |
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Post by Kubo Caskett on Mar 2, 2016 23:19:11 GMT
I think that might be plausible that the allies might see Hitler as the "lesser evil" compared to the Communists and secretly back him while at the same time don't bother in public given that the Allies just fought Germany over 5 years ago.
But who knows, I might be wrong there.
I think it's likely that they would support a fascist German government against German Communists and the USSR. The USSR seems to have been the bogeyman of the day, and given that Communists were also active in Germany at the time (the Hamburg Uprising started by the Communist Party was only a couple of weeks before the Beer Hall Putsch!) they might see the instability as an opportunity for the USSR to expand its influence in Germany. I'm not sure how likely it would be, but it'd be interesting to see a Spanish Civil War-esque situation develop, with the USSR supporting the socialists and the West supporting the fascists in a German civil war. Or maybe the communists might hold an insurgency in some regions in Germany but it'll get suppressed by Hitler's government the same way the communists were in Brazil in the early 70's. Either way it would definitely make the 1920's a very different one than OTL's. |
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Post by Krall on Mar 2, 2016 23:49:47 GMT
Or maybe the communists might hold an insurgency in some regions in Germany but it'll get suppressed by Hitler's government the same way the communists were in Brazil in the early 70's. Either way it would definitely make the 1920's a very different one than OTL's. That's certainly true. It's hard to know how this would likely affect the possibility of a world war, or how one might start in this timeline. I guess it mainly depends on how the West's opinion on the Nazi German government compares to their opinion of it from OTL - they might be more worried about Fascism overall, seeing as it seems to be more revolutionary in character in this timeline, so it's possible they might intervene earlier in Germany's rearmament and violations of the Versailles treaty. I'm not sure if that'd erupt into a full-scale world war though, the Western Allies might just force Germany to keep to the Versailles treaty, or possibly renegotiate it to lessen its restrictions in light of the Communist threat from the east and leave it at that, rather than completely bringing down the German government. If that does happen I could see the Soviets take the opportunity to strengthen their position in Eastern Europe whilst Germany and the West are distracted and freshly bruised from their war - maybe they'd retake the Baltic states earlier? |
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Jul 28, 2020 11:03:03 GMT
Jul 28, 2020 11:03:03 GMT