Africa without European colonization

[punkrockbowler805]

What would Africa be like unscrambled? Better off for starters. Arabian slavers and states like Oman colonized before Europe in East Africa so that would still happen. So Zanzibar would be important. Places like Mali, Ghana, Kongo would retain independence. Any other ideas?

[steve59]

Don't know about better off unless you assume that the European powers still manage to stop the devastating Arab slaver raidings that was occurring on a pretty huge scale. [Or are you assuming no Arab/Muslim attacks on Africa beyond the Nile valley possibly?]

Also unless you go back about 400 years then Kongo at least won't be still in existance. What you would need for this is that for some reason Europe never develops the knowledge and abilities that enabled them to buils trans-oceanic ships. Which would have massive butterflies far beyond Africa. You might need to assume that industrialisation never occurs at all.

Steve

[bytor]

Yeah, there's far too many butterflies from this and they all depends on the exact why that Africa is not subjected to European colonization.

One possibility, though is in a mild modification of this what if. Africa was never really interesting for the Europeans until after the Franco-Prussian War. At the point, European powers only controlled about 10% of Africa - mainly in the form of port cities plus the Algerian coast by France and the southern tip by Great Britain. At that point Kongo still existed as it actually remained mostly independent for another 20 years.

If you can keep European colonization more like what happened in Southeast Asia with relatively little white immigration (that left power bases of local-born whites that took control during decolonization post WW2) and relying more on local elites and you'd probably have something that would be a little more congruent with those old tribal kingdoms, at least in their core territories, as puppet states that get into wars on their own fueled by combinations of European pressures and their own historical enmities rather than solely by European conquering forces.

One possibility is a nation like Kongo becoming an African regional "Great Power" and spreading their syncretic version of Christianity all over Central Africa thanks to an adoption of not only Christianity like OTL but also European technologies in an ATL thanks to the educational links that Christianity would have allowed. It could even grow into a country that could contend on its own terms with the European powers on a global scale.

[steve59]

Dec 27, 2016 17:33:27 GMT bytor said:

Yeah, there's far too many butterflies from this and they all depends on the exact why that Africa is not subjected to European colonization.

One possibility, though is in a mild modification of this what if. Africa was never really interesting for the Europeans until after the Franco-Prussian War. At the point, European powers only controlled about 10% of Africa - mainly in the form of port cities plus the Algerian coast by France and the southern tip by Great Britain. At that point Kongo still existed as it actually remained mostly independent for another 20 years.

If you can keep European colonization more like what happened in Southeast Asia with relatively little white immigration (that left power bases of local-born whites that took control during decolonization post WW2) and relying more on local elites and you'd probably have something that would be a little more congruent with those old tribal kingdoms, at least in their core territories, as puppet states that get into wars on their own fueled by combinations of European pressures and their own historical enmities rather than solely by European conquering forces.

One possibility is a nation like Kongo becoming an African regional "Great Power" and spreading their syncretic version of Christianity all over Central Africa thanks to an adoption of not only Christianity like OTL but also European technologies in an ATL thanks to the educational links that Christianity would have allowed. It could even grow into a country that could contend on its own terms with the European powers on a global scale.

  Fascinating on the Kongo kingdom.  I thought it had largely been destroyed by the Portuguese after they started buying/taking slaves from the region and the Kongo kingdom objected.  Never realised it lasted that long.  Thanks for that.

  What your suggesting may work, although I think it would be difficult to prevent the steady influx of European settlers and influence in southern Africa.  Conflict and rivary between the Boers and British, the nature wealth of the lands and the resultant impact on prompting Portuguese desires to protect their interests is going to be difficult to stop I suspect.  In part this wiull be pushed by local interests, such as the Boers and local British imperialists such as Rhodes.

  It might be that if the British and French don't squabble over the situation in Egypt then you might find a lot less formal control over the rest of Africa, especially if the Arab slave raids from the east can be stopped without major direct European control in eastern Africa.  Although as you say a different outcome in the Franco-Prussian war could be the key point.  Possibly some bloody stalemate that means that both powers are fixated with the threat from each other and hence have no real interest in expansion in parts of Africa with minimal economic returns.

  Steve

[MarshalBraginsky]

There were several candidates that could have become regional leaders of Africa, as in they could have become the dominant African power. I can think of a surviving Songhai that expands to what is now Morocco, a Moroccan Sultanate that conquers Timbuktu (similar scenario to the Songhai but roles reversed), Kanem Bornu Empire, Ethiopia, and a surviving Mamluk Sultanate.

[bytor]

Dec 28, 2016 0:43:08 GMT MarshalBraginsky said:

There were several candidates that could have become regional leaders of Africa, as in they could have become the dominant African power. I can think of a surviving Songhai that expands to what is now Morocco, a Moroccan Sultanate that conquers Timbuktu (similar scenario to the Songhai but roles reversed), Kanem Bornu Empire, Ethiopia, and a surviving Mamluk Sultanate.

Most of those were defunct without any European intervention by 1800 with the exception being Bornu but it was moribund by then. If you want a country that would be able to take advantage of imported European technical knowledge (Other than Kongo like I mentioned above) might be the Fulani Jihad states, like Sokoto, Massina, or even the Toucouleur Empire. They all had administrative structures, decent armies and resisted European ingression until almost 1910.