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Post by MarshalBraginsky on Jan 4, 2017 7:11:52 GMT
What if Cortez and his company failed to conquer the Aztec Empire? Granted that the Aztecs would still be struck by European diseases after making contact with the Conquistadores, but by then the Aztecs might end up collapsing on its own.
I could see how France might end up becoming the conqueror of Mesoamerica: Giovanni da Verrazano's expedition actually veers way off course and somehow ends up in either modern day Panama or Cuba. What would the cultural and socio-political effects of France taking Spain's place in its conquest of the Mesoamerican civilizations?
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Post by steve59 on Jan 4, 2017 16:36:59 GMT
What if Cortez and his company failed to conquer the Aztec Empire? Granted that the Aztecs would still be struck by European diseases after making contact with the Conquistadores, but by then the Aztecs might end up collapsing on its own. I could see how France might end up becoming the conqueror of Mesoamerica: Giovanni da Verrazano's expedition actually veers way off course and somehow ends up in either modern day Panama or Cuba. What would the cultural and socio-political effects of France taking Spain's place in its conquest of the Mesoamerican civilizations? MB I think if Cortes failed, while it might delay matters I doubt it would change the wider details. Spain is already secured in Cuba and other Carribean islands and has a much stronger military establishment at the time so its likely to be back before France can seek a major invasion of the region. Especially if survivors from Cortes's experdition report the wealth of the Aztec empire. Plus the treaty of Tordesillas is already in place and I believe backed by the Papacy so there could be a lot of opposition to any French intervention. Steve |
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Post by MarshalBraginsky on Jan 4, 2017 20:13:46 GMT
What if Cortez and his company failed to conquer the Aztec Empire? Granted that the Aztecs would still be struck by European diseases after making contact with the Conquistadores, but by then the Aztecs might end up collapsing on its own. I could see how France might end up becoming the conqueror of Mesoamerica: Giovanni da Verrazano's expedition actually veers way off course and somehow ends up in either modern day Panama or Cuba. What would the cultural and socio-political effects of France taking Spain's place in its conquest of the Mesoamerican civilizations? MB I think if Cortes failed, while it might delay matters I doubt it would change the wider details. Spain is already secured in Cuba and other Carribean islands and has a much stronger military establishment at the time so its likely to be back before France can seek a major invasion of the region. Especially if survivors from Cortes's experdition report the wealth of the Aztec empire. Plus the treaty of Tordesillas is already in place and I believe backed by the Papacy so there could be a lot of opposition to any French intervention. Steve The Treaty of Torsedillas didn't stop the Dutch from raiding and taking Spanish and Portuguese colonies though, but that was during the years in which the Dutch actually launched their war of independence from Spain. |
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Post by MinnesotaNationalist on Jan 4, 2017 21:29:43 GMT
MB I think if Cortes failed, while it might delay matters I doubt it would change the wider details. Spain is already secured in Cuba and other Carribean islands and has a much stronger military establishment at the time so its likely to be back before France can seek a major invasion of the region. Especially if survivors from Cortes's experdition report the wealth of the Aztec empire. Plus the treaty of Tordesillas is already in place and I believe backed by the Papacy so there could be a lot of opposition to any French intervention. Steve The Treaty of Torsedillas didn't stop the Dutch from raiding and taking Spanish and Portuguese colonies though, but that was during the years in which the Dutch actually launched their war of independence from Spain. The Dutch were also mostly Protestant and couldn't care less what the Papacy said. That said, the other colonial powers generally didn't really care about Tordesillas, so it doesn't really matter. Only Portugal and Spain ever really followed it. My question, assuming Spain never ends up in Mexico and France eventually gets to it is when do they get to it. Is it before or after the Wars of Religion. |
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Post by MarshalBraginsky on Jan 4, 2017 22:08:09 GMT
The Treaty of Torsedillas didn't stop the Dutch from raiding and taking Spanish and Portuguese colonies though, but that was during the years in which the Dutch actually launched their war of independence from Spain. The Dutch were also mostly Protestant and couldn't care less what the Papacy said. That said, the other colonial powers generally didn't really care about Tordesillas, so it doesn't really matter. Only Portugal and Spain ever really followed it. My question, assuming Spain never ends up in Mexico and France eventually gets to it is when do they get to it. Is it before or after the Wars of Religion. It might be before the Wars of Religion, and France did send an expedition to the Americas with the help of Giovanni da Verrazano (who explored the east coast the OTL United States). Also, there might be situations where a storm could veer the expedition of Cortès from his intended location to either South America or North America. |
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Post by orvillethird on Jan 11, 2017 17:30:38 GMT
One wonders if the French could win with a later PoD, such as Ribault holding onto Fort Caroline and not losing his ships and crew.
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Post by MarshalBraginsky on Jan 17, 2017 5:02:29 GMT
One wonders if the French could win with a later PoD, such as Ribault holding onto Fort Caroline and not losing his ships and crew. Having a bigger French presence in what is now OTL South Carolina and Georgia would have allowed them to endure any potential Spanish attacks. However, another PoD would be for the French to build their settlement in what could have been OTL Jamestown or some other settlement around the Chesapeake Bay area. The main problem would be the selection of the colonists that would go and settle in Fort Caroline or some other colony around the Chesapeake Bay region. Would it be loyal French Catholics or troublesome Huguenots? Fort Caroline could have been established elsewhere other than around the Florida region since it was within easy striking range of the Spanish colonies and it would have been easy for the Spaniards to rush troops to Florida. |
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