PC: Kola as a Prosperous Russian Port

[MarshalBraginsky]

I'm surprised that Kola and many other cities on the Murman Coast managed to stay ice free despite the harsh winter climates that would have plagued other ports like Arkhangelsk, Vladivostok and St. Petersburg. Suppose Russia never acquired any Baltic ports in their conquest, could the Russian government view the port of Kola as their only functioning pseudo-ice free port year round?



It was also surprising that the Kola Peninsula region was developed surprisingly late as 1915 though.

[deltaforce]

The Kola Peninsula is really out of the way. Any ships going from there to Europe would have to go all the way around Scandinavia, which doesn't have to be done with a Baltic port. This map shows how far that is (source):

[MarshalBraginsky]

Mar 14, 2017 8:08:26 GMT deltaforce said:

The Kola Peninsula is really out of the way. Any ships going from there to Europe would have to go all the way around Scandinavia, which doesn't have to be done with a Baltic port. This map shows how far that is (source):

True, but isn't the town of Kola considered a port town?

[Krall]

I dunno, there'd have to be a major reason Russia couldn't access a more conveniently located port. Even if other countries owned all the other nearby coastlines they'd have to be actively hostile during peacetime in order to put up barriers to Russian trade, as well as too strong for Russia to consider invading and either annexing or setting up as a friendly puppet state. Either that or Russia is paranoid about their access to other ports being cut off by hostile powers and sink money into developing one on the Kola peninsula.

It's not a natural place for a port city, so there need to be some exceptional circumstances to make this happen.

[MarshalBraginsky]

Mar 14, 2017 22:11:08 GMT Krall said:

I dunno, there'd have to be a major reason Russia couldn't access a more conveniently located port. Even if other countries owned all the other nearby coastlines they'd have to be actively hostile during peacetime in order to put up barriers to Russian trade, as well as too strong for Russia to consider invading and either annexing or setting up as a friendly puppet state. Either that or Russia is paranoid about their access to other ports being cut off by hostile powers and sink money into developing one on the Kola peninsula.

It's not a natural place for a port city, so there need to be some exceptional circumstances to make this happen.

Wasn't Murmansk developed as a port despite being located in the most inhospitable region in the entire Russian state?

I could think of a surviving union between Poland-Lithuania and Sweden as an impetus for denying Russia access to the Baltic. Heck, even Arkhangelsk was built as a port and that is also located in an extremely inhospitable region. In addition, there's the fort of Mangazeya where the majority of the Russian fur trade was conducted, and that fort is close to the nearest port town of Salekhard. However, all of those forts would freeze in the winter time.

The closest thing that Russia could get to a warm water port would most likely be on the Black Sea or the Pacific Ocean, but that would require a Russia that foregoes northward expansion and expands southward and eastward.

[deltaforce]

Kola is a great port location if there is a reason to stay out of the North Sea and/or be closer to the Arctic. Here's what it looks like from an Arctic view (source):



Historically it was used for Allied supply convoys, with Scandinavia acting as a shield of sorts to help protect the ships. During the Cold War it was used as a submarine base, and in that role it is about as far away from the North Pole as it is from Europe, maybe even closer.

[Krall]

Mar 14, 2017 22:35:18 GMT MarshalBraginsky said:

Wasn't Murmansk developed as a port despite being located in the most inhospitable region in the entire Russian state?

Yes, but in exceptional circumstances during WWI - any port in the Baltic or Black Seas was easily blockaded by the Central Powers.

Mar 14, 2017 22:35:18 GMT MarshalBraginsky said:

I could think of a surviving union between Poland-Lithuania and Sweden as an impetus for denying Russia access to the Baltic. Heck, even Arkhangelsk was built as a port and that is also located in an extremely inhospitable region. In addition, there's the fort of Mangazeya where the majority of the Russian fur trade was conducted, and that fort is close to the nearest port town of Salekhard. However, all of those forts would freeze in the winter time.

The closest thing that Russia could get to a warm water port would most likely be on the Black Sea or the Pacific Ocean, but that would require a Russia that foregoes northward expansion and expands southward and eastward.

I looked up Arkangelsk, and considering it was founded essentially to be what this thread is proposing for Kola - a primary trading port when access to the Baltic was controlled by a foreign power - I think I was a bit too harsh on the idea of Kola as Russia's primary port. If Peter the Great's campaign against Sweden doesn't go as well as OTL and similarly St. Petersburg is never founded, then founding a new city/expanding an existing settlement in the Kola peninsula would be a viable alternative.

[MarshalBraginsky]

Alternatively, if Ivan IV opted not to launch the Livonian War (which was a conflict initiated by Muscovy/Russia in order to acquire a Baltic port), then Kola would have been developed as an alternate port but with a different name.

Moreover, there's the settlement of Anadyr, which is located in another inhospitable region of Russia (in this case the Chukhotka region), which might have been useful as a layover between Russia and Alaska. Simultaneously, if Russian Arctic sailing techniques were innovated, refined and developed in a much better detail, then it would have been possible to develop a special kind of port that specializes in ships suited for Arctic temperatures, but this is a tall order preceding icebreakers and submarines.

Ideally, Kola and the nearby area that became OTL Murmansk would have become one gigantic port that would have been easily defended and accessed by foreign and local ships alike, but the only issue is the lack of roads between Kola and Moscow. Then again, there may have been difficulty in building a road between Moscow and Arkhangelsk.

[steve59]

MB

As I said on another site I think if Russia is denied ports on both the Baltic and the Black Sea and also effective trade through those regions, it will seek to develop the Kola region as its only practical option. However prior to the development of railways the terrain and climate of the region will make it of relatively minor use. You simply won't be able to import and export sizeable amounts of goods before then and even afer the railways develop it would be somewhat restricted.

Plus if there is a mega-Sweden, possibly in combination with Poland, blocking access to the Baltic its likely to be strong enough to at least threaten the Kola region. Which would be a great way of really crippling Russian links with the wider world. If the Turks are also blocking access via the Black Sea then Russia could well end up similar to one of the Asian gunpowder empires, if a bit weaker as even reliable use of artillery would probably be difficult. Between a threat from the west [and south] and the importance of river transport you might see the centre of Russian power move to the Volga basin.

Steve

[MarshalBraginsky]

Mar 15, 2017 19:53:18 GMT steve59 said:

MB

As I said on another site I think if Russia is denied ports on both the Baltic and the Black Sea and also effective trade through those regions, it will seek to develop the Kola region as its only practical option. However prior to the development of railways the terrain and climate of the region will make it of relatively minor use. You simply won't be able to import and export sizeable amounts of goods before then and even afer the railways develop it would be somewhat restricted.

Plus if there is a mega-Sweden, possibly in combination with Poland, blocking access to the Baltic its likely to be strong enough to at least threaten the Kola region. Which would be a great way of really crippling Russian links with the wider world. If the Turks are also blocking access via the Black Sea then Russia could well end up similar to one of the Asian gunpowder empires, if a bit weaker as even reliable use of artillery would probably be difficult. Between a threat from the west [and south] and the importance of river transport you might see the centre of Russian power move to the Volga basin.

Steve

Or past the Urals for that matter.

If the Swedes, Poles and Turks have managed to find a way to cripple Russia's links with the rest of Europe, then its window to the world might be shifted way eastward, especially if Siberian expansion is accelerated much earlier in this case. Of course, the Swedes can't shut down Arkhangelsk, Salekhard or even Mangazeya due to logistical constraints, so Russia is stuck with ports that are useless half of the year, hence their shifting goal of acquiring a useable, ice free port towards the Pacific.